One of my best friends has this appallingly disconcerting habit of telling people he loves them. I mean, it’s nice, but, well, you know… Odd.
I get very odd, when my friends say they love me. And don’t know what to say. It’s just not part of my background, not the way things are done, in my mind.
So when my friends say they love me, I always have this jolt, and put on an imaginary twin set and pearls, clatter my imaginary china cup back onto my imaginary china saucer and think “Good Garden Seats, that’s slightly over-the top, isn’t it? I think we’re all just a little over-excited. Perhaps another cup of tea would help‘ - and scurry away to my imaginary kitchen, wondering what the women of my imaginary WI would say.
Which is stupid. I DO love my friends. I just cannot get over the high wooden slatted fence of my stiff upper lipped English upbringing enough to say so. Or when they say so. Even in a jokey way. And if I try, I sound really weird and forced and silly. I can’t say “I love you” to a freind.
So
a) Do you tell your friends you love them. Just like that? Not a drunken “Ah fuckin LUFFOO, mate”, but a simple; “I love you, insert-name-here“, or such?
And
b) Does it make a difference if it’s a platonic friend of the sex that you are usually attracted to (opposite/same/indeterminate etc)?
Important Thursday questions continue below. Please answer those too. Or not. But just in case you have, you know, an opinion or something.
a)Not so far
so
b)Dunno..
Comment by Dominic — 13 July, 2006 1:55 pm
1. Good GOD, no. I’m similarly ILY-phobic, and only rarely use those three little words even to my partner. There’s often something a tad passive-aggressive about “I love you”, isn’t there? Because you can’t help but wonder whether it’s just a ruse to get the other person to say it back.
2. Actually, that would make it more likely. We Gentlemen Who Moisturise Twice Daily can be excessively prone to such expressions of sentiment - and yet, like so much of our most intimate physical interaction, it’s so casually done. Mwah! Mwah! Luv ya loadz!
Comment by mike — 13 July, 2006 2:01 pm
always, always tell your friends that you love them, that they are great, and encourage them, lots. Always. Always. Always.
[But only if you really really mean it]
Comment by andre — 13 July, 2006 2:04 pm
Oh, Andre, I do tell them they’re great. I tell them they’re marvellous and talented and all the things I like about them.
It’s just the, you know, PHRASE.
Comment by anna — 13 July, 2006 2:06 pm
Maybe we could get the phrase, “I love you without the sex” to catch on?
Comment by Mr Angry — 13 July, 2006 2:12 pm
I think it’s alright to say ‘Love you’ - you know, as you wave goodbye or put down the phone. But that little ‘I’ in front makes *all* the difference. ESPECIALLY if it’s to your partner.
also, the meaning depends on the tone, doesn’t it? whether you say it as in “I do love you, you’re so funny!” rather than “I love you, you mean so much to me”
god, it’s confusing.
Comment by Alicia — 13 July, 2006 2:15 pm
in fact, i think we should invent another word for ‘love’, depending on what you actually mean and who you’re saying it to. Any suggestions?
Comment by Alicia — 13 July, 2006 2:16 pm
The one I find difficult is when my friend says at the end of a phonecall “lots of love!” before saying goodbye. In reply, I just sort of go, “Uh, yeah.”
Comment by Will — 13 July, 2006 2:17 pm
Oh, I can’t say those 3 little words either. Even to my poor mum. At the end of phone calls, she always says “I love you” and I want to say it back, becaue I do love her, she’s lovely, but I just can’t get those words out of my mouth. I hate it when my boyf says it too. I think “I love you” has been hijacked by cheesy American films and made meaningless and embarassing. It’s definitely not that I’m too up my own arse or anything like that…
Comment by Timorous Beastie — 13 July, 2006 2:21 pm
I agree, it’s all in the tone and funnily enough I’m more likely to say ‘I adore you, you’re wonderful’ or something like that; being more OTT lightens it somewhat - okay, okay, you have to hear me to get it.
I was talking in a similar vein to a (male) friend and we agreed that it is surprisingly intimate to say ‘I like you’ and really mean it.
Comment by z — 13 July, 2006 2:25 pm
anna - all the other things [great, marvellous and talented etc] are good enough.
Although I do tell people that I love them [unless they are female and I think they may jump on me - then I say 'you're a lovely person']
Comment by andre — 13 July, 2006 2:29 pm
Hm, ‘intimate’ sounds sexual, but I don’t mean it like that. It sounds sincere as it’s so simple but not often said to someone (rather than about him or her).
Comment by z — 13 July, 2006 2:29 pm
In the army we call the drunken ‘I love you’ type thing ‘Bezzering’ - as in “Your my bezzer mate in the whole wide world.”
But to answer the question - no - the only people I say that to are my wife and kids.
Comment by US — 13 July, 2006 2:41 pm
(a) No. Not even in a drunken “I love you guys…. I really do” kind of way.
(b) If, however, I did do (a), I don’t think gender would make any difference.
By-the-by - I remember reading something way back when about seven sorts of love, but can’t remember what they were (and no sniggering there at the back - I wasn’t being smutty). Romantic, Platonic, Fraternal, Erotic but can’t remember the rest - am sure there must’ve been something about God and one’s country too - but can’t remember. Anyone else got any ideas? Personally I think love of chocolate should be there…
Comment by Richard — 13 July, 2006 2:49 pm
a) I’m similarly phobic, largely because I’m afraid it may be misinterpreted. It’s an important phrase, and one I always tried not to throw around in relationships until I was actually sure of it, so just saying it to friends sort of… devalues it, I think. Funny thing is, there are some friends who it is true for, I’m just not sure of a good (but different) way to say it.
b) No, not really. I mean, it’s awkward for different reasons if a friend of either sex misinterpreted it, but since I don’t go around throwing the phrase around anyway, that’s not much of a problem.
Comment by Fraz — 13 July, 2006 2:53 pm
Hmmm. I know lots of people who do a), to me, both male and female, so the answer to b) would have to be ‘no’. I don’t do it myself, mind. Unless I’m drunk, in the ‘Ah fookin LOVEUUU man’ type way, which apparently doesn’t count (although I think it should).
Comment by Matt — 13 July, 2006 2:57 pm
I say it all the time to my family — well, except my dad (though I would mean it just as much to him, you know the whole guy-communicating-with-guy problem…don’t you?) But no, I don’t say it to friends, despite the fact that I love a good number of them. It would just sound creepy, I think. I’d say to them from my death bed, though — or to theirs. Till then, no need.
Comment by John Williams — 13 July, 2006 3:44 pm
Ew, wierd. Is it in the form of, “But of course Anna, that’s what we love about you”, or the more freaky and intense, “Anna… Anna, I love you.”
Because if it’s the second, you have the choice of running for the hills, or replying, “Oh. Yes. Likewise, I’m sure.” Then running for the hills.
Comment by Damian — 13 July, 2006 3:58 pm
Heck, I’ve been raised among Christians and most of my friends are Christians. We all say we love each other, All The Time! Although, you know, not literally. At appropriate moments. And if it’s aimed at somone of another gender, and might be ‘misinterpreted’, you have to be even more careful.
But in general, yes, I lovelovelove my friends.
Comment by Anna F — 13 July, 2006 3:59 pm
Anna, duck, I don’t know what on Earth being Christian has to do with anything! It makes it no more or less likely that people will speak the words ‘I love you’ to their friends, surely?!
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love, love, love my friends also, not ever saying I don’t and, although not a Christian myself, I was raised by them (why does the use of thise phrase make me think of wolves?) and some of my friends-that-I-love are also christians. I *still* don’t tell them I love them.
I don’t see that whether someone is a humanist, a christian, a muslim or an ‘other’ has anything to do with anything! Does it? It certainly doesn’t make you more capable of loving, or being loved, I think.
How odd.
Lovely for you etc, but still, not sure your point, poppet.
Comment by anna — 13 July, 2006 4:04 pm
Never. Ever. It’s just ‘too much’! Too ‘full on’!
*wonders if the weather is indeed hot enough to unbutton one pearl button of her high-necked victorian collar without feeling undressed*
Comment by Sooz — 13 July, 2006 4:05 pm
Ohhh for fucksticks.
Life is too short, and the British reserve needs a good kicking.
I’ve told everyone that I care for. Simple. Male friends, female friends alike. It’s a small circle mind you and I’m pretty sure they all got in touch with one another to ask questions like “Do you think he’s dying?” or somesuch.
But hey, I was happy, and I DO luv ‘em. Even the big chuffer.
BUT!!!
It’s not something you repeat. Say it once. Maybe once every ten years… or twenty. DO NOT REPEAT TOO OFTEN.
Then they’ll just think you are looking for a shag. And my mate Stuart is a good lookin’ guy but he’s not my type.
Comment by Gordon — 13 July, 2006 4:52 pm
I say things like, “Love ya”, At the end of quite a few conversations with my very close friends and family.
I am from the land of…what was it…”Cheesy American Films”, though.
Comment by loralee — 13 July, 2006 4:59 pm
Um.
a) I put ‘love you’ on the end of emails to perhaps 3 of my (very, very close) friends.
b)Sometimes yes, and sometimes no - I have one platonic male friend who I can say ‘love you mate’ to on the odd occasion, and it’s cool, because there’s no way on god’s earth that we would stand to be in a non-platonic relationship with each other for more than approximately 30 nano seconds without feeling the need to drink heavily and/or damage each other.
Otherwise, it kind of makes me want to say something like ‘you’re not getting the dyson when I die, if that’s what you’re after.’
Comment by rachie — 13 July, 2006 5:07 pm
1. Good god, like every other day. You can chalk this up to my boisterous Americanness but I say I love you all the time. For friends, it’s usually “love you!” at the end of a conversation or a lunch or a drunken night out. They all say it back. We’re like that.
2. I have less guy friends than girl friends to whom I would say I love you, mostly because I love less of them (the majority of them) or know them well enough to know that whilst they love me back, they wouldn’t say it. But when things are important to them, if they’re going through a tough time or we’ve just had a real heart-to-heart then yes, I will tell them by way of reminding them what our friendship is and means.
Seriously, darling, it may be uncomfortable but it’s also very powerful to remind your friends that what you feel for them isn’t just a good night at the pub or a laugh during a movie - that for those in that circle of your sentiment, it really is love.
It’s also LESS powerful than it seems simply because of its connection to romantic love. I may say those three words very differently to Stuart than to Kate, but it’s still love.
Thus endeth the cheese.
Comment by Krissa — 13 July, 2006 5:12 pm
But the thing is, as someone else said, for some reason there’s a world of difference between ‘love you!’ and ‘i love you’.
One I can say (to freinds, family, animals, televisions, articles of clothing), the other, though I say it to my beloved approximately 500 times a day, feels uncommonly intimate to say to a friend.
It’s like sticking the tongue in when all they were expecting was a peck on the cheek, yes?
Comment by anna — 13 July, 2006 5:18 pm
Hm… ‘British reserve’ or not - heck, i’m Asian, you don’t get more resrved than that! - I still say The Phrase to my friends (of the opposite sex or ortherwise) because a) i mean it; b)in my twisted obstinate logic, they are my [close] friends and therefore must* understand what i mean by that & not misconstrue it as something ’sexual’; c) i hate hate hate the senseless reserve that my ethnic background had somehow imposed upon me sometimes, so - by principle and sheer adolescent rebellion, really - i force myself to say The Phrase whenever i feel it [to my friends & family only, obviously...], even if ppl may seem surprised at first (i started saying ‘i love you’ to my older-much-more-tradtional sister lately, and though she seems rather distraught at first, she is seemingly warming up to the idea and had even started saying it [faintly] to me as well! hurrah - i CAN change the world!…[or at least, mine...]).
(p.s.: Right. Hullo there miss Anna! i have been reading - and thoroughly enjoying - your lovely blog lately, but have only now worked through all prejudices/fears i had for posting personel things on website to comment, and, of course, say ‘hullo’, with two thumbs up and a cheer, to you. So there. That’s all. Have a nice day.)
Comment by V — 13 July, 2006 5:39 pm
Nope - just wouldn’t feel right. But then, I am British.
But, even if you do, you can’t do it much because it cheapens it. That’s true even with your nearest and dearest.
I’d quote some cracking lines from poems by Henry Normal but I dont want the copyright police gently tapping on my window at 7 o’clock in the morning. So instead I’ll say go out and buy yourself a copy of Nude Modelling For The Afterlife by Henry Normal. How could anyone fail to enjoy it?
Oh, and by the way, Anna, I love you.
Comment by Aaron Seasearch — 13 July, 2006 5:43 pm
WAH!
Comment by anna — 13 July, 2006 5:46 pm
Okay, how about, I love your blog?
Comment by Aaron Seasearch — 13 July, 2006 5:52 pm
Or maybe I should say that, I love you with my visits, I love you with my comments.
Comment by Aaron Seasearch — 13 July, 2006 5:55 pm
Totally know what you mean, and used to find it really weird too. Never say I love you to my family, it’s always a rather abstract “lots of love” both ways, even in phone conversations. Never mentioned face to face.
In terms of friends; I rather feel that when someone says it to me it’s a bit rude not to reciprocate, in the same way that if your partner says it you can’t really just say “thank you” or “great” and they might be a bit hurt if you don’t say it back. I’ve now come to feel more comfortable with this but would never say it first.
Comment by the B — 13 July, 2006 6:26 pm
Dear god. Have you met me?
I think I told you yesterday that I loved you. In a strictly platonic I think you are fabulous way.
I tell my friends I love them all the time. And not always drunkingly… but, errr… often times inappropriately especially when I’m feeling emotional and PMS’y…
(And you know I love you sweets…)
Comment by ladymissmarquise — 13 July, 2006 6:33 pm
Hopefully your friend reads lrb and will know that you love him in that kind of way too, despite the imaginary scuttling, coughing and mumbled dittos.
Or it could up the stakes to ‘I really love you..’
Comment by Anna from the Styx — 13 July, 2006 8:14 pm
a) Occasionally. I really do love em, but am very not comfortable with the words, in their serious manifestation. Well, like you, they slip out happily quite ridiculously often… but only to the one person. Frankly I’m not even comfortable saying it to my parents. Some of my friends say it to me easily, and it’s always a little weirding. But there are times when I do need to tell them, and I do. Not casually, though.
b) Oh heavens yes. Silly, but true.
Comment by scroobious — 13 July, 2006 8:20 pm
I always have that little jolt you mention when my friends tell me they love me, too. But then I think, how nice, and try very hard not to be irritated. And I do return the compliment. But I never spontaneously say it to friends, not even when drunk.
But yes, it does seem a little unnecessary. But nice. But annoying. And guilt-inducing, because how nice of them to say so, and how awful of me to be irritated by it.
And if there is even the slightest hint that they might actually fancy me (and for me this is doubly awkward, what with being bisexual an’ all - nobody is exempt), then I feel extremely uncomfortable and get All Worried.
I used to think it would be nice to have a bevy of unrequitable admirers. But if ever there’s been the tiniest whiff that somebody may have an unrealistic non-platonic interest in me, I panic and hate it hate it hate it. Which is another reason for the I Love You thing to make me feel a bit… not right.
But I constantly tell my partner and son how much I love them. But never my parents. Or sister. Never ever. It would feel wrong. I do love them, but they already know that, and it’s just…
Obviously we had similar upbringings.
Comment by Clare — 13 July, 2006 9:35 pm
No. And I never know what to say when people say it to me. I wish they would stop. Or at least stop looking so offended when I reply, “That’s nice”, or “Well, you are only human.”
Comment by Katy Newton — 13 July, 2006 9:48 pm
No no no, never. It’s not what you say, it’s what you do.
(I like the English reserve. It’s why we don’t make terrible slushy sentimental films like they do in Hollywood.)
I have written it though.
Comment by annie — 13 July, 2006 10:01 pm
I do say it to my close friends of both genders. You never know if it might be the last time you speak, so I want it on record that I love them. I dont’ say it every time we talk, but if we’ve had a really close conversation, I’ll say it before we hang up. (Cheesy Californian here, so maybe we are more “touchy feely” than most).
I love your blog, Anna!
Comment by Myra — 13 July, 2006 10:36 pm
i maybe the only one thats noticed it but it seems to be a scott mills radio one thing and yes its not very “british” BUT may catch on….. by the way what is worth listening to on the radio in town it all seems to have gone seriously down the loo lately, get a bigger playlist radio people!
rant over, love you anna ;-)
Comment by stu — 13 July, 2006 10:54 pm
Hello all people who have commented for first time! Hello V! Hello Myra!
Hello everyone else. Thank you for being discursive. I am currently so tired I think I may knock myself out on the keyboard as I fall face forward, asleep.
Otherwise i would say something incredibly witty and clever at this point.
Obviously.
Booooooo.
Comment by anna — 13 July, 2006 10:57 pm
I only say it when I’m trying to get someone into bed.
Comment by looby — 14 July, 2006 12:21 am
ooof. I’m from a fairly gushy part of the rather gushy US–I think I have told all my friends that I love them, but usually at a rather specific time, (weddings, moving cross- country, planes flying into local buildings…etc.), but I feel a little odd when it’s used casually.
Comment by Jessica — 14 July, 2006 12:37 am
Oh, dear me! No, no, no… I only say The Phrase to my boyfriend. Quite frequently, actually, even though he’s only said it back twice.
When anybody else says The Phrase to me, even close family members, I don’t know what to say back. I just stand there looking embarrassed and wishing they hadn’t said it.
Which sex the person in question is doesn’t matter, as it is extremely awkward either way.
(No, I am not British. Where I am from is a long story, but I live in French Guiana now with my French SO.)
Comment by Marie in Kourou — 14 July, 2006 1:03 am
a - yes i have been known to on occassion - once actually when my head was particularly f*cked up about my boyfriend and i turned to a friend (male)(think that answers b as well!) in floods of tears - he was absolutely brilliant and just a great mate - i was so glad he was there for me and it meant so much that i said “i love you” but just meant it platonically.
other than that it’s a general drunken “you’re my best friend, i love you soooo much” kinda thing with me!
oddly i have issue saying i love you to my family - my sister says it all the time (she’s 16) but i just sort of “mmmm….” in response. dont get me wrong, i do love her, just hard to say….
anyway i’m rambling…. i’ll stop now!
Kerri
Comment by Kerri — 14 July, 2006 8:03 am
a) nope not those exact words, I do tell them all that they are the bees knees but not the l word
b) I dont think it would make any difference
Comment by dee — 14 July, 2006 8:44 am
I only say it to my friends as an alternative to I am deeply grateful for that very specific (but ultimately trivial) thing you have done eg someone alerted me to a magazine she (correctly) thought I would want to buy. My response “You are a wonderful person, I love you.” But I would never say it on meeting or parting, for example.
I never say it to my closest family. The only person I routinely say it to is my partner. At bedtime he says “God bless” which used to make me awkward but I got into the habit of saying “Sleep well”.
But I’m awkward when someone says “I love your outfit” and it never occurs to me to say that.
Comment by Gert — 14 July, 2006 12:35 pm
Well, Drunken/celebratory “I love yous” amongst friends are commonplace in the pack I run with (I was also raised by christians hence wolf mentality).
The honesty in this is vivid. What is there to “love” about your friends? When we say it, draped all over eachother, tongue in the ear, revelling in whatever it is that has moved us to that point, we’re saying
“Look at us, the time we have and the life we have, we could be the luckiest people alive!” And thats true and you should acknowledge it, Love is the only word strong enough for the passion we should feel for our lives.
The “I Love You” between friends in other circumstances is so much more dangerous. Not when used flippantly as in “You went BACK to the bar and my phone was still on the table?? I Love you SO much!”
…But the only time i’ve been “I love you-ed” by a friend in a poignant circumstance it was while he was busy putting me through an emotional wringer - (Boy likes girl-1 for 5 years, nothing happens, boy meets girl-1’s friend and falls for her - Discusses the minor dilemma with his own friend, who proceeds to make it a major dilemma by moving in on girl-1)
“I love you” I’m doing a selfish thing, but
In this case should have been acted rather than spoken.
Tellingly, the friendship ended 5 years later when he snapped over a series of tiny slights - no being invited to join a flat - a snipe comment over leaving a party rudely, He punched me repeatedly in the face in an incident of unprovoked violence, followed by 6 months without contacting me to apologise, ending in an email from the other side of the world that ignored the incident entirely.
But i’m not venting just because i’m too cheap for therapy -
Tell your friends you love them, but with the reserve that you would say it to a lover because even though the sex part might not come into it, the trust and respect part sure do and once you “love” someone you significantly raise the standard that you have to behave toward that person. If you’re not prepared to put them ahead of yourself at almost every opportunity, don’t say it at all, because thats what love requires.
Comment by Dave — 14 July, 2006 12:37 pm
Blimey. Thanks dave.
Comment by anna — 14 July, 2006 2:45 pm
I kinda agree that saying I love you to a friend is crossing a bit of a Rubicon - in the same way that when you say it to a partner for the first time it feels awkward and loaded with significance, and the relationship maybe becomes a little bit deeper - but it fairly soon becomes more natural and a part of your discourse, though hopefully not meaningless. So I have probably a couple of close friends who it feels natural to say I love you to, and we say it reasonably often, but I think in each case the first time was during very intense conversations. I do only say it when I really, really mean it - but being a mad bag of emotions that can be pretty often - I tell my little sister I love her embarrassingly frequently.
Just to add to the cheese factor (mmm, tasty…) I have come round (very circuitously) to believing that you should always say good things when you mean them and when they come into your head. Anything from I love you to X is one of the things I really admire about you to Gosh I like your hat. It doesn’t come naturally to me to verbalise these things - I just think them to myself, which is really pretty ridiculous, considering how ridiculously happy I am if someone says a nice thing to me.
On question (b), guess it depends if it’s really definitely and incontravertibly a platonic friendship. My closest male friend also happens to be my ex. It was all a long time ago and we’re really close, but when it comes to the I love you issue… Oh the subtexts! I find myself wanting to say I love you - in an entirely platonic way - and saying the lamest, lamest things, e.g.: “I’m really fond of you”, “You’re great, you know”, and - the worst - “I really want to say I love you at this point but I don’t want you to be freaked out…”. Cringe.
By the way, LOVE the word fucksticks, Gordon! Especially I like that you eventually have to wonder about the nature of a fuckstick…
Comment by Eloise — 16 July, 2006 2:07 am
I used to say it all the time, but now, only very seldom(ly?) and I get really uncomfortable when people say it to me. (have developed major trust/intimacy issues in the last three years..) It makes things too complicated when the friendship reaches its shelf life, I think. However, I’d rather hear it from/say it to friends than family (except my son).
VERY rarely, I will sign an email or letter “Love,” but it has to be a very particular set of circumstances. (I don’t even like putting it on cards.) There are a few people I will say it to comfortably, but usually in an offhand or light-hearted teasing sense, and NEVER as a way to end a conversation - using it as a substitute for a simple “see ya!” or “bye” seems really wrong.
Comment by elayne — 16 July, 2006 5:47 am
I never tell friends that I love them. Never, ever, ever. I can tell Marlies and the kids it every 10 seconds if allowed, but for anyone else, my English Middle Class upbringing will not allow it under *any* circumstance.
I might manage it under torture, but that isn’t something I plan on testing out just yet. :)
Comment by Martin Bryant — 16 July, 2006 10:01 pm
Nope, never unless very drunk and they have offered to buy me more beer, take me home, or have introduced me to a beautiful woman who is just as drunk as me.
Love is for serious girlfriends, pets and family.
Comment by JonnyP — 21 July, 2006 1:25 pm
Of course I say it. It would be all mean and starchy not to.
Comment by Sarsparilla — 25 July, 2006 2:38 am